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I Bought a $7M Roofing Business… Then Almost Lost It

Acquisition Collective · 1:02:29 · Watch on YouTube ↗

BuyerCamille
TargetCommercial roofing business
Industrycommercial roofing
Year2022
Deal typeSmall-business purchase
Price$3M
OutcomeRecovered
Lossnot stated

The one thing to remember

In a relationship-driven business, you are not just buying revenue—you are buying customer trust, seller credibility, and a team’s willingness to follow you.

What happened

Camille bought a $7M-revenue commercial roofing business in late 2022 for about $3M, using SBA financing. The numbers were not described as fake; the failure points were people-related: concentrated customers lost confidence, the leadership team resisted change, and the buyer expected the company to run without much of his involvement. Revenue fell from about $7M to about $5.1M in year one and $4.6M in year two. The turnaround came after Camille became more involved, rebuilt leadership, focused on culture, and a former owner returned to help restore customer confidence. By 2025, the business was expected to finish around $12.1M in revenue.

Who's telling it: Camille, the buyer/operator of the acquired roofing business The account is mainly from Camille, the buyer; the sellers, employees, lenders, and customers are not interviewed, so their side is missing.

Timeline

  1. Sourcing

    A friend introduced Camille to a seller after Camille rejected starting a commercial roofing company from scratch.

  2. LOI

    Camille agreed to buy the commercial roofing company, attracted by private work, high margins, long-tenured staff, and a seller who would remain involved.

  3. Financing

    The deal used SBA financing, and the real estate was carved out late because of environmental issues.

  4. Closing

    The acquisition closed at the end of 2022 for about $3M on a business doing roughly $7M of revenue.

  5. Integration

    Customers hesitated, leadership resisted new systems and meetings, and Camille realized the business needed much more of his time than expected.

  6. Operations

    Revenue declined to about $5.1M in year one and $4.6M in year two, with major customers reducing large-project work.

  7. Operations

    Camille replaced much of the leadership team, invested in culture, implemented systems, and became more present in the office.

  8. Operations

    A former owner returned, customer confidence improved, and the business was expected to reach about $12.1M in 2025.

stage where a mistake was made

What went wrong 7 issues

major Customer concentration

Top customers lost confidence

The acquired company relied heavily on a small group of large customers. After the acquisition, some customers kept calling for smaller work but stopped sending the larger projects, causing revenue to fall sharply.

Mistake made at Due diligence → showed up at Operations

“The business after acquisition lost consumer confidence and and consumers stopped calling for bigger ticket items.”

Warning signs

  • The business depended on a few large, high-touch private customers.
  • Camille later said five customers created roughly 80% of revenue.

How to prevent it

  • During due diligence, the buyer and seller should meet every top customer more than once and document what each customer needs to see to keep sending large projects.
  • Before signing the LOI, the buyer should model a downside case where 2-3 top customers pause large projects for 12-24 months.
  • At closing, the buyer should launch a customer-specific continuity plan with seller introductions, named account owners, and a schedule of follow-up visits.
major Key people left AI inference

Departing owner held relationships

A departing owner appears to have been central to customer trust and market credibility. When he came back, Camille said stability returned and the phone started ringing again.

Mistake made at LOI → showed up at Operations

“he is so well known, so well networked, has so many relationships um that it's something that it's extremely hard to substitute.”

Warning signs

  • One partner wanted to move to Florida, while customers were used to the old leadership.
  • When that former owner later returned, Camille said the business turned around quickly.

How to prevent it

  • Before closing, the buyer should identify which owner or employee personally drives each major customer relationship and rate how replaceable that person is.
  • In the LOI, the buyer should require the relationship-owning seller to stay for 12-24 months in a defined customer-facing role if their relationships are central to revenue.
  • At closing, the buyer should tie part of seller compensation to successful handoff of named relationships, not just time served.
major Culture clash

Leadership resisted change

Camille expected the existing leadership team to support growth and new systems. After close, they resisted changes such as CRM, meetings, and process standardization, and he eventually replaced the leadership team.

Mistake made at Due diligence → showed up at Integration

“after acquisition they threw their hands up and said nah don't make any changes we like it the way it is”

Warning signs

  • The account managers had their own customer funnels and operated like separate businesses.
  • The team nodded during pre-close meetings, but had little experience with the buyer's systems and processes.

How to prevent it

  • During due diligence, the buyer should spend meaningful time with the leadership team and discuss the exact changes planned, including CRM, meetings, reporting, and growth targets.
  • Before closing, the buyer should have each key leader confirm in writing their role, decision rights, and which operating changes they agree to support.
  • If alignment is weak, the buyer should hire or assign an experienced operator before close instead of assuming the inherited leadership team will lead the change.
major Due-diligence gaps

No earnout or AR plan

The buyer paid straight out without an earnout and did not buy AR. That reduced seller alignment after close and left the buyer exposed when customers paused larger work.

Mistake made at LOI → showed up at Operations

“I didn't do an earn out. I didn't buy AR. Um I just bought it straight out”

Warning signs

  • The deal had customer concentration and a departing seller, but the sellers had little post-close economic stake in transition success.
  • Camille described it as his first acquisition and said he did not do proper due diligence.

How to prevent it

  • At LOI stage, the buyer should structure an earnout, seller note, or holdback linked to customer retention and successful transition milestones.
  • During financial due diligence, the buyer's accountant should define normalized working capital and decide whether AR is included, excluded, or purchased separately.
  • Before closing, counsel should include a post-closing true-up for working capital, AR collections, and any disputed transition items.
major Operational problems

Hands-off ownership assumption

Camille bought the company expecting not to be deeply involved. In reality, the business needed active onsite leadership, and delaying that involvement made the turnaround take much longer.

Mistake made at Thesis → showed up at Integration

“I was buying this one with the intention of not really being involved uh leaning on the people that were already here.”

Warning signs

  • Camille's existing business already took about 30 hours per week.
  • The acquired company was only about $7M revenue, relationship-heavy, and not large enough to be self-sustaining without active leadership.

How to prevent it

  • Before closing, the buyer should decide whether the business truly has a capable operator in place or requires the buyer to be onsite.
  • If the buyer owns another company, they should backfill their old role before close so they can spend the first 90-180 days in the acquired company.
  • At closing, the buyer should publish an onsite schedule and weekly operating rhythm for staff, customers, and project review.
minor Operational problems

Messy WIP transition

The work-in-progress transition was overcomplicated, with multiple completion thresholds and confusing profit/cost splits. Camille said the process was a mess and likely cost money.

Mistake made at Closing → showed up at Operations

“We've put in metrics of like 20% completion, 50, 75. You keep the profit, I keep the profit”

Warning signs

  • The company had ongoing commercial roofing projects at closing.
  • Camille said the transition rules became overcomplicated and he probably lost money on it.

How to prevent it

  • Before closing, the buyer and seller should create a simple job-by-job WIP schedule with agreed revenue, costs, billings, and remaining margin.
  • The buyer's accountant should test the WIP schedule against invoices, purchase orders, and project manager estimates before funds are released.
  • The purchase agreement should include a clear WIP true-up mechanism 60-90 days after close to correct over- or under-allocation of costs and profit.
minor Poor strategic fit

Outbound sales took longer

Camille assumed adding outbound business development would be an easy value-add. Several hires did not work, talent was expensive, and building trust in commercial roofing took much longer than expected.

Mistake made at Thesis → showed up at Operations

“I thought that was my lowhanging fruit. I thought that was my value ad.”

Warning signs

  • The business historically relied on inbound work and relationships, not outbound sales.
  • Customers were building owners, facility managers, property managers, and consultants, where trust and authority take time.

How to prevent it

  • During due diligence, the buyer should validate any growth thesis by interviewing industry salespeople, customers, and competitors about realistic sales-cycle length.
  • Before hiring multiple business-development staff, the buyer should run a 90-day pilot with one industry-credible person and clear activity and pipeline milestones.
  • The first-year budget should treat new outbound business as upside until the company proves conversion rates and sales-cycle timing.

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Thesis

Sourcing

LOI

Due diligence

Closing

Integration

Operations

#roofing#commercial-services#customer-concentration#key-person-risk#integration#seller-transition#sba#small-business-acquisition

Transcript 1589 lines · 10757 words · auto-generated captions

Camille bought a $7 million commercial

roofing business for a 2.8x multiple and

it almost put him out of business. Not

because the numbers were wrong, but

because he misunderstood people,

customers, and what really [music]

breaks after an acquisition. In the

first year, revenue dropped from $7

million to nearly 5 million. Customers

hesitated. Leadership resisted change,

and the business he thought would run

without him demanded everything. He

skipped earnouts, missed customer

concentration risk, and assumed the

existing team would follow his vision.

They didn't. In this episode, we break

down the real mistakes first-time buyers

make, client trust, leadership

alignment, [music] and why hands-off

ownership is a lie at this level. If

you're buying or thinking about buying a

business, this is the conversation you

need to hear before you wire the money.

>> I say this to everybody I speak to when

we get on this subject is expectations.

I had an operating business that was

doing extremely well. It took up, I

would say, 60 to 70% of my time by then,

but still significant over around 30

hours a week, let's say. And I was

buying this one with the intention of

not really being involved. The other

owner who left to Florida turned out a

family didn't like Florida. So, they

came back. And when they came back, he

approached us. Let me help you guys out.

I know you guys are in trouble. And came

back and started helping out. And within

2 months, everything started turning

around. That sort of proved to me that

consumers saw that he's back. Stability

is back and the team was back together

and and the phone started ringing. And

then we came to an agreement on a

long-term partnership and and we're all

back together now and one big happy

family.

>> Born and raised in Poland. Um came to

the States in 1993 at 13 years old. went

to school at high school, college, and

right uh as I was finishing college, I

was actually supposed to go to law

school.

And my mom at that moment asked me if I

would help her out in her little

business. And her business started 3

years prior. So about the time when I

came to the States and uh actually no,

I'm sorry. 3 years prior.

No. Well, No, she was already in

the business for a bunch of years. Hold

on a second. So, she's been in business

since 93.

>> Oh, yes.

>> Uh, but anyway, it was a a sighting

installation company for contractors.

So, basically, a builder called and she

she uh did the estimate. My stepdad got

in a truck, got the job done, and and I

and she asked me to help out over the

summer. So, I said, "Sure, you know, um,

let me make some money before before I

go to law school," which what I what I

thought I was going to do at the time.

And as I'm running

working in that business um

few months into it, she decides she

tells me that she is she wants to move

to Florida and would I be interested in

taking over and uh I put a little bit

thought to it. There was a debate,

internal debate, but eventually I said,

"Yeah, let's do it." I like the money. I

like the prestige of being an

entrepreneur. Uh and um and and we got

into it. She she moved out and and I was

uh I was neck deep in it. And it

certainly was not what I imagined. It

wasn't, you know, uh suit and tie and

and boardroom meetings, any of that. It

was me in the truck driving around uh

doing a little repairs and and uh

swinging a hammer here and there and

measuring and walking in mud and using

portaotties. That's that's what I was uh

that's what my next seven to nine years

look like in that in that role. But uh I

took ownership of it really quickly. I I

I it became it started becoming my

identity and I loved building I I

learned that I loved building a team. Um

not really a team at that moment but I I

what I thought was a business but

obviously it was just a job a self self

uh self- entrepreneur. Um yeah and then

and then this is about year 2014 15 16

uh so I'm in it about 10 years and then

I got um I discovered and I got

introduced to different aspects of how

to grow businesses uh community

masterminds and and everything took off

from there.

>> Nice. And um and then so you you you

grew that siding business. It's not a

roofing business yet, right? When did it

transition into roofing?

>> It ex it transitioned about that time,

right? So the year is 2017.

I get introduced to this network

mastermind called Go Abundance. I I

start discovering what it means to be an

entrepreneur, what it means to build a

team, what it means to scale. Now at

that moment, I still had it was just

still baby steps and it was just

theoretical plan and and vision and

mission. uh and I started I hired my

first admin then I hired a project

manager so it was a team of two then

three then four very very small and um

maybe about 2019

I in started introducing roofing to our

offering and a little bit of windows and

today it's still a it's still a I would

say the brand is still very much based

on sighting. Our name was B&B sighting.

Then we put B&B sighting and roofing. Uh

and currently it's probably a 50/50

split between sighting and roofing. All

residential uh selling at your kitchen

table. So right from that moment where I

joined the mastermind, I started

discovering the opportunity. I started

phasing away from builders and

contractors and leaning deeper into

retail. That that change alone almost

put me out of business because I did it

too fast

>> and I didn't realize that builders and

contractors would kept the lights on in

the winter because retail is not really

calling to do projects in the northeast

in the middle of January. So that was a

very very steep learning curve. Uh but

we got through it and uh and now we very

little builder and contractor work.

maybe a few select uh customers that

we've worked with throughout the years

and it's all retailbased.

>> Okay. And and that's a that's actually a

really good insight right there where

you um you said um I um you figured out

that uh builders kept the lights on

during the off season because a lot of

people go into um business like that and

then they have this perception about

builders and you know the risk and um

you know and they they don't want to be

in the builder business and the

cyclicality of it but then they don't

understand that that there's a

seasonality to the business that that

builder helps with and then probably

other things as well as a as a feeder

mechanism for future business and so

forth. U that's a huge insight. Um how

about the uh uh the the difference

between siding and roofing? Can you kind

of talk about it a little bit like

what's the difference between those two

businesses in terms of um

client acquisition or in terms of margin

in terms like the whole business? I'm

I'm assuming they're completely

different.

>> Yeah, quite a bit. And I'm actually

quite surprised that

sighting does not have as much

competition as roofing.

>> Now I I know why, but I'm surprised that

companies um that are a little bit more

uh advanced do not lean to lean into

sighting because because there's roers

all over the place. But honestly, all

you need is a truck and a ladder to do a

roof. to do a sighting. It's a little

bit more of a capex investment into into

a lot of equipment. Um the difference

being is the P&Ls run the same way.

There's no issues there. The difference

being is that the sighting project takes

a lot longer. Anywhere from 5 to 7 days.

Roofing projects, at least here in the

Northeast, any you know two days max. If

it's a huge house, maybe three with

ripoff. So a much quicker turnaround

with roofing. But then your average

ticket size is a lot larger with

sighting. Um you have a lot more

complexity with sighting. Estimating

roofing is a lot easier. Estimating

sighting is definitely a lot more

involved. Right now with technology we

use hover so it it's really easy for

either or. Uh but then your IT expenses

go up.

It's um I don't know if one is better

than the other. Uh there's pros and cons

to all of it, right? Quicker cash

turnaround with roofing, but again

bigger ticket prices with siding. You

can get you can hit scale quicker with

siding. It's like and we'll get into it

obviously. It's like sc it's like going

from residential roofing to residential

siding to commercial roofing. All of a

sudden you add zeros at the end of each

ticket

>> and and that's your potential to scale

without really

scaling the operation. All you're doing

is just playing in a bigger sandbox.

>> Got it. So, what is like a good sighting

company? What is the um gross margin and

what is the net margin there?

>> Right. Okay. So, that's a important

distinction. Then for us, our gross

margin on sighting is 46% currently and

we're actually looking to go go above 50

in the next few weeks.

>> Nice. H and and roofing. I said siding,

right? I did say siding. And roofing

>> the Well, it depends on how how fat you

are. You know what I mean?

>> Just like the

>> typical you should be anywhere between

15 to 20%.

>> Okay. All right. So, typical. And then

the roofing

>> and roofing is a lot lower because

there's so much more competition, right?

So, I'm we're selling roofing right now

at 30

36ish 36 somewhere around that.

>> Uh so, you know, 10 points lower. Uh

soon to be even much more lower than

that. Uh but we're competing with trucks

in the truck and and it's really really

hard here. Uh there is there one

important distinction at least for us.

We're trying to figure out how to do it

for roofing. But for sighting, we are

able to offer a lot more value. There's

a a lot more tangibles and risk with

sighting where you can we can create

value with roofing is not that easy to

create value up and above what everybody

else is doing already.

>> That makes sense. Um interesting. And

you said the the sighting is a higher

ticket.

>> Okay.

>> A lot higher. Yeah. Our average ticket

on sighting is, you know, anywhere

between 25 to 35,000.

>> Wow.

>> Roofing is 20,000 minus 20,000.

>> Okay. And then how about the size of the

market, the TAM essentially for siding

versus roofing. So roofing is bigger or

siding or it's the same.

>> I I actually am not going to give you

that answer because I don't know.

>> Okay. [laughter]

I did not go that deep.

>> That's interesting. Uh okay. And you

said that there's not as much

competition in sighting, not much

sophisticated competition in sighting

than there is in roofing.

>> Do you know why?

>> That's correct.

I would assume because of the uh capexes

required to get into the business. So

there is no so it's a it's a interesting

difference. There is no sophisticated

competition in roofing because there's a

lot of trucks in the truck in roofing

but there is quite a bit of

sophisticated competition in sighting.

Oh,

>> companies that are as much as hund00

million in revenue doing sighting

primarily.

>> Yeah. So when I when we are coming in to

to uh sell a sighting jobs, our

competitor competition is sophisticated.

>> Oh, okay.

>> When we come in to sell a roofing job,

we see bunch of napkins and and and

estimates on napkins.

>> Okay, got it. So there's more

competition on the siding than there is

on the roofing. I thought it was the

other way.

>> No, no, no, no. I'm sorry I misspoke.

There is more on the roofing in in terms

of quantity of competition. A lot of

roofers.

>> Yeah.

>> But but more sophisticated less but more

sophisticated on the siding side.

>> Makes sense. Okay. Got it. Makes sense.

That's interesting. Okay. And uh so now

take us to the acquisition, you know, uh

going from residential going into an

commercial acquisition.

>> Yeah. So, so it's a year 2022, best year

for us in business. Really thought I

had, you know, the world by the horns. I

hired a COO for my residential sighting

roofing company. We're we're really

going deep. And I asked myself, what's

the next step on this journey, right?

And and the natural next step was was an

acquisition. And that one fell into my

lap. My buddy of mine came over and

wanted to open up a commercial roofing

company under my existing umbrella. But

I said, "I'm not interested because

we're going to have to start at the

bottom. We're going to have to chase new

construction work. Margins are horrible.

We're going to get hurt." And he says,

"You know, he kind of right. I know this

guy who wants to sell." And that's how I

got introduced to to this seller here in

the north uh Jersey. And we started a

conversation. and it took us about a

year and a half to get the deal done,

but neither him or nor I were in a were

in a hurry. Uh so yeah, actually that

conversation started way earlier than

2022.

Um and then um yeah, end of 2022, we

closed on the acquisition. It was a um a

commercial roofing business that only

does commercial. Uh they did about $7

million in revenue.

I bought it for $3 million uh 2.8 man

multiple

and um

it was unique and the reason why I got

really connected with it because it was

all private work, no big box, no new

construction, very high margins. Um

obviously that comes with a lot of red

flags that I ignored but uh but I liked

what I had at that moment and then the

team here was had very very longevity.

Um most of the PMs and field workers

were Polish so I couldn't relate and

make that connection. Um and just good

people overall. It was a good culture.

Um you know almost like that that family

culture and it wasn't you know it was it

it Looking at back at it now, it wasn't

mom and pop in the grand scheme of

commercial roofing, but to me, $7

million was not nothing to to to scuff

at. So, I thought I thought it was a

pretty pretty good business, pretty good

size business. Um, yeah. And we took it

down and uh and went on that whole

journey, which I can get into.

>> So, yeah. Yeah. So, before that, what

was the why did the seller want to sell?

>> It was two. Yeah, it was primarily two

sellers, uh, two partners. They've been

together since, uh, mid 90s, I think.

Yeah, mid to late 90s. And, um, one

partner wanted to move to Florida uh,

for family reasons. the the primary

partner that I was talking to and that

was really the main reason that why they

wanted to sell um because um with

whoever was going to buy that business

the other partner who was stayed in

Jersey wanted to stay on which was also

attractive to me to have a guy stay on

>> um so that was primary reason they were

splitting up. Yeah.

>> Got it. And so do what was like your so

you you you you had the conversation

you're you you made them an offer they

accepted. Um can you speak about the

structure a little bit about of the

structure of the deal?

>> Yeah. So it ended up being an 801010.

Um we used SBA financing. We were going

to take down the real estate as well but

last minute we had to carve it out due

to some environmental issues. So

unfortunately our terms went from longer

real estate inclusive to lesser because

there was no real estate and um that was

pretty easy. Some of the mistakes that I

made again it being my first rodeo and

and honestly even if I I was going to

take this business down anyway didn't

matter what happened. I'm I'm that kind

of guy. It's just like I burn the boats.

I get it done. I figure it out. It

almost did put me out. But uh but yeah,

I you know, I didn't do an earn out. I

didn't buy AR. Um I just bought it

straight out, man. And uh

>> didn't do proper due diligence.

>> Okay. Yeah. So So there's no working

capital included or anything?

>> No, not from the sellers, but I did get

working capital from the uh from the

lender, from the bank. Yeah.

>> Got it. And uh uh so tell us like the

due diligence mistakes first.

Yeah, for sure. Concentration, consumer,

consumer concentration was the biggest

one that I should have really connected

and go deep on that and met with every

single one. I've met with two. We sat

down across the table. We chit chat and

I left. No, it should have been multiple

meetings. How can I, Mr. Consumer,

make you feel comfortable and and trust

me to continue to do business with me?

Is there anything that might come up for

you if I buy this business that you

might, you know, consider not working

with us? Because that's essentially what

happened. The business after acquisition

lost consumer confidence and and

consumers stopped calling for bigger

ticket items.

>> So that was the biggest red flag.

Obviously what I've mentioned around AR

and working capital and earnouts that

should have been another one because um

human psychology I'm not not blaming

everybody but when you sell and

disconnect from what was previously

yours you don't feel the same attachment

so I don't blame anybody for going up up

up and above making sure that these

consu consu customers don't leave um

it's just it was just a nature a natural

progression and then how it naturally

unfolded it but having earnouts and

things like that then yeah you you still

have skin in the game and you want to

make sure the transition is smooth. So

that was that. Um another big one the

biggest apart from that the biggest one

was

uh coming to an understanding and full

alignment with the team with the team

that you're buying. Um, and I'm not even

talking about the PMs or the site uh

supers or the service techs or the

technicians. I'm talking about the

leadership team internally. Um, this

business was was compartmentalized with

account managers that had their own

customer funnel and there was one guy

who was groomed to lead the business

forward which was also music to my ear.

But it all turns out that we weren't out

on the same page. I mean in those few

meetings that I've had I I was talking

about growth and I was talking about

what kind of strategy I was want to

bring into this company and they nodded

their heads but when we bought it and

after acquisition they threw their hands

up and said nah don't make any changes

we like it the way it is you know go do

your thing leave us alone and and that

was a huge huge disconnect over the

three years we I've had to top rate the

entire leadership team fire everybody

replace everybody it was It was

horrendously hard to do and and and if I

leaned into them more in during the due

diligence process and and actually spent

significant uh time connecting deeply

connecting with them, I'm not saying

that things would have been differently,

but I would know what's coming way

earlier than I did and would prep for

it. So that's

>> those two things are are probably Yeah.

So they're the three biggest things. Cuz

you got the client, you got the talent,

and you got the capital.

>> Yeah, exactly. Common denominator is

people. So, it's always about people.

>> Yeah. What else?

>> Oh, what else? Um,

then then then the little things, you

know, inventory check. Inventory was

definitely old and needed to be replaced

and sold. Um, so so there was another

thing that I butchered which was the

transition of work in progress.

Um,

I probably should have simplified it a

lot more. I I we've put in metrics of

like 20% completion, 50, 75. You keep

the profit, I keep the profit, you pay

me the cogs, I pay you the cogs. It was

a mess. Um, all in all, probably

lost money on on that whole transition.

Um, and again, it's it's it's nobody's

fault. It was just a matter of over

complicating the situation. Um,

and then for me personally, the biggest

one and and I say this to everybody I

speak to when we when we get on this

subject is expectations.

I had an operating business that was

doing extremely well. It took up I would

say 70 60 to 70% of my time by then, but

still significant, you know, you know,

over over around 30 hours a week, let's

say.

and I was buying this one with the

intention of not really being involved

uh leaning on the people that were

already here. And obviously, as you can

assume from what I'm saying, it did not

work out like that. I I needed to step

in. And not only that, I was a even even

months after acquisition and I think a

full year, I was still fighting coming

to the office. I was still I couldn't

believe it that I got myself in this

situation and I was just hoping that

it's going to work itself out without me

actually being involved. Uh but then I

gave in and I started coming in with the

pressure of my of my peers and my

mastermind, my network. Um and and and

now I'm here. I'm here multiple times a

week and we're having fun. Now I

embraced it. Now the when the thing is

winning, everybody's having fun. So, uh,

so that the expectation about what it

takes to run a business at this level

and we think $7 million topline and, you

know, a million bottom line, it's

supposedly a good self- sustainable

business, but no, no, no, no, no, no,

no. It's it's got to be a lot larger

than that.

>> Okay. So, I'm going to go back to each

part each part. So, the the client

concentration, did you have

concentration on the revenue side or on

the EBIDA side or the the earnings side?

both.

>> Well, definitely definitely revenue,

which sort of in my mind translates to

both. But we've had we had I would say

no more than five top customers take,

you know, five customers creating 80% of

revenue.

>> Wow. Okay. And

>> very concentrated.

>> That's Yeah. And then so how many of

them kind of stopped calling? One or or

more than one of those five?

>> I'll say three out of two.

>> Three out of two.

>> And I I don't mean stopped. They still

called but not with big projects.

>> Okay. Oh, so they gave you guys smaller

project and Okay. And so they they stop

they stopped giving you guys the big

project because they had their

relationship with one of the owners and

they just didn't know you and they

didn't trust you or is it because they

had a relationship with one of the

account managers and so that person was

not doing their their job or why why did

they stop making those sending you those

jobs?

We've had the meeting. I've had the

meeting with each one of them

>> pre-loc pre-loc most of them. So, so

there was the understanding.

>> Yeah.

>> And um to answer your question directly,

I don't think it was because Mike left

and all of a sudden Mike's there so I'm

not calling cuz Mike's not there. Cuz we

had the the understanding that yeah,

he's leaving and everything will be

seamless.

>> Yeah. Uh, I am convinced that the phone

stopped ringing because the because if I

if I'm the customer and I have a

million-doll project, am I going to call

New Techch who has a new owner now

replaced a few people in the office?

It's a team I' I'm not familiar with.

Can I trust this team to execute such a

large project

uh and mitigate my risk? And the answer

is no. So, I don't blame them. Um, but

that should have been my conversation up

front and reassuring them what changes

I'm making, how I how it's going to be

benefit them as a customer. So, it's

it's all that that should have played

out on my side. But that's what I think

it was. I think it was they wanted to

give it time to see where things settle

with the with the new owner and the new

team and can then still perform at that

high level. Because remember the first

thing I said at this call and the reason

why I bought the company it was a

hightouch private concentrated customer

base meaning the way Newk did work and

still does is a lot on a lot higher

level than other customers. So the jobs

that we're that we were being fed where

I touch very difficult. Um, so I

understand why it was not easy for them

to just, you know, sign off on the bid

and and have us do it.

>> And and this is like year one. The

changes you made year one, you said in

the office, were they part of those

account managers or just staff?

>> Uh, I would say the whole thing played

out in in two years.

>> Two years.

>> So within those two years, uh, the one

owner left to Florida. Uh then we had to

uh turn some admin staff later in like

year two. We turned two account

managers. Uh not really hurt us.

So it all played out in like 18 to 24

months.

>> Got it. And in that first 12 month, how

so you were at 7 million when you

entered. What was the revenue year two

or year one?

4

I want to say 5.1 year 1 4.6 year two so

we down trended

>> and then and then we we zoomed in for

the win year three.

>> Nice. Okay. So, so year one they already

kind of like so that's just their

discomfort. Although although Jay I'll

say this and this is again nobody's

fault but in that whip transition

>> from remember we closed in October 22 in

that transition which was the

acquisition and the year the fiscal year

a lot of the work got pushed to 2024. So

they're they closed the old company at a

very very high

>> topline revenue year because they pushed

as much work as they could. So they

could still benefit off of it. I would

do the same thing obviously.

>> So that's why my year was at 5.1. If

everything was natural, I think the year

would have been around six.

>> Okay. So both years will be 66 and then

it'll even out.

>> Yeah. But the real hurt came about in

202

>> four.

>> No, no, four.

>> Four.

>> So we closed in 22. 23 was the

transition year. 2024 came to hurt.

>> Got it. And then what were the changes

that the account managers didn't like?

What did they like resist?

>> Everything. And primarily it's it's um

CRM, it's systemat systematization

processes. Everybody had everything in

their heads. They didn't want to be told

what to do. Oh my god. Did they hate the

meetings? Oh my god. I They never had

any meetings because they were all in

the same office. They have a beautiful

lunch table. They just get around at the

table during lunch. And I get it. I get

all that.

>> Uh so again, there's no blame whatsoever

like EOS or something. Is that

>> exactly? Yeah. Kind blasting with EOS. L

Pen meeting VTO. Let's go guys. And

they're like, "What? Get out of here.

>> Get out of here." [laughter]

>> It was crazy.

>> Okay. So now, like, if you were to do

this again, how would you approach that

same team?

>> Well, first of all, I'm not doing it

alone now. So, I did it all alone. It

was just me.

>> And um now we're actually looking at

another acquisition. And now I have a

team. I have a team who knows and has

bought in and and will be able to come

and not a team of outsiders because I

still consider myself outsider. I'm I'm

not a commercial roofing expert. Uh but

now I have a partner uh actually the old

owner who came back. We we are now

working very closely together and he's

he's my credibility. He's the guy who

can connect with the next owner and say,

"Hey, this actually works. You know,

this L10 meeting works. this this CRM

thing works and it's just u it's just

cool to be in the room and be well

received and have the translation of how

I see the vision and the mission go

through an owner operator like my

partner into this new owner operator

who's selling who now knows that his

baby's going to be taken care of and and

etc. So, um, so that's the main

difference, um, is is to partner up

with, uh, either an operator or or a

former owner within that industry. It

just makes life

>> someone who has credibility and then can

speak the language of that, you know, of

that industry. So, so, so if you were to

go back and then how how would you

approach those two things? The the the

the client base, how would you what

would you do differently, you know, in

order for you to keep those clients or

at least let's say not that big of a

drop, you know, smaller drop and then

how would you do it with the team as

well if you were to go back and do it

again? Time travel.

>> Yeah. Well, with the team that's

probably a little easier. If I felt that

I'm not making a connection and we

weren't aligned, then I would even

before acquisition, I would look for an

operator.

>> Got it.

>> An account manager um to to step in with

me. That would be the solution to that.

And then uh with the customers,

you know, it's it's easy for me to say

that again I should have been more

blunt, more clear, ask for uh for what

they expect. But at the same time, they

could have very easily just said yes.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then

still do what they did.

>> Yeah.

>> So that's a hard one. That's a hard one.

>> Like that first year, would you have

like maybe showed up to the office day

one and

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Go spend spend more time with them. and

take them out. Take them out.

>> Yeah, I'm sorry. I missed I missed your

question. What what I would have done

differently if I would have moved my

life into this office day one. Okay.

>> I would have been here set up did not

leave and everything would be 10 times

easier. But because I was so resistant

>> to changing the way I live life

>> that it took me two years which should

take me 3 months. This this whole

turnaround should have been no more than

six months.

>> Got it. But it's just it's just you know

nature

>> so being there spending some time with

the client spending time with the team

>> fixes it all. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Build% building connection trust

you know alignment.

>> Um yeah. Okay. So so that makes sense.

Uh on the team side you know uh to

understand a little bit the alignment

with your team. Um you know obviously

you had the opportunity to talk to them

before you closed which is kind of

sometimes rare. it's not as you know

it's not as common you know how would

you have done differently to kind of uh

you know kind of like get that out of

them get the um um the misalignment if

you will between what you're trying to

do versus what you know what they're

expecting but also but also you have to

take that in consideration that whatever

you're you say you're going to do they

have no experience you know with it so

they they can say yes but they don't

know what it is you know what I mean

until you actually do

So, how would you do that part where

surface those issues before you close?

>> More time, just more time spent with

them. And you're absolutely right. It

still wouldn't give me 100% assurance.

But what I didn't know then I know now

is that even seeing the in inexperience

of that person's

um

um you know inexperience with systems or

processes or or EOS

>> if I recogn if I well I did recognize it

but if I if I connected the dots I would

have even maybe brought in somebody from

B&B be not necessarily for the benefit

of industry knowledge, but for the

benefit of being a champion of change.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh to sit down with them and and help me

champion the the implementation of

whatever I was trying to do because

you're absolutely right. None of them.

They nodded their heads

and they

and and I just took it for I just took

it at at their word and I said and I

thought to myself, okay, I'll bring in

the new new implementations and we're

going to rock and roll.

>> Um, but u if I spent more time with them

and I actually realized, you know what,

this guy might be open to it. I know he

doesn't have experience. I know he's

going to be resistant a little bit, but

if I bring in Lauren with me from B&B,

we both can tackle it because he's open

to it.

>> Yeah.

>> But the guys that I actually had there,

if I spent more time with them, I would

have realized that they're yesing me,

but they're not open to it

>> and they were never going to be open to

it.

>> Got it.

>> And that's the piece I missed.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean there's

actually an there's actually it's kind

of like a capacity for change or change

a capacity and essentially the ability

for a team or a business to essentially

transform to change and and it's a

measure that you know um there

consultants and adviserss that do this

that can do surveys and question and do

interviews to figure that out you know

as part of the operating operational due

diligence to figure out you know I'm

going into a team that has that capab

ability to transform to where we wanted

to go or not and then so just know it

ahead of time is huge um in terms of uh

>> um how you proceed. Okay. So so this is

huge this is super valuable because the

client you know elements is definitely

something that that happens and uh the

team uh piece also happens. Um, so, uh,

you said there were two owners. Was one

of the owners stayed, right? And then

one of the owner left to California or

to Florida. The person that stayed is is

he still there?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're both still

here, actually.

>> Oh, nice. Okay. What are their roles?

What are they

>> there? So, so the one that was that

never left that was here,

>> he is he's he's our estimator and sort

of salesperson, right? Uh, there is no

real sales process here.

uh at at in in in our company. It's more

about building a proper job scope,

building a proper bid package for the

customer, solving all the issues. And

he's amazing at that. He's very

analytical engineer mindset. So, he's

he's been with us. Um he never left. And

um and uh but he's not, you know, he's

not an account manager. He's not a

leader. Not because he's the bad guy.

It's just not it's not his personality.

Yeah. that's not something he would feel

comfortable with. So, he was just

basically like sending out bit packages

and meeting with customers just to go

over scopes. And um the other owner who

left to Florida turned out that his

family didn't like Florida. [laughter]

So, they came back and when they came

back he he approached us, this was

earlier this year and said, you know,

let me help you guys out. I I know you

guys are in trouble. And came back and

started helping out. And within two

months, everything started turning

around. And and that that sort of proved

to me that

>> the the c customer consumers and consu

consumers saw that he's back. Stability

is back and uh the team was back

together and and the phone started

ringing. Uh and then we um came to an

agreement on a long-term partnership and

and we're all back together now and one

h big happy family. That's awesome. So

what so what did you do uh when he came

back to kind of like turn the ship

around?

>> Yeah. So so this uh he he is definitely

more of a um

full-on account manager, you know, great

at selling selling, great at making

connection, great at connecting and

influencing people. Uh he's your true

sales professional and a leader, right?

He's he was he was the one running this

business before I bought it. So he's

back in that same role and uh the

difference being is that he is so well

known, so well networked, has so many

relationships

um that it's something that it's

extremely hard to substitute.

And um with him came back the brand and

came back the strength of this business

cuz people knew that if they give him a

job a project that will get done and no

matter what happens it will get done

will get done right. So that was the

biggest thing.

>> Nice. And so uh when you uh when you

bought the business how many account

managers did you have?

>> Two.

>> Okay. Okay. And those account managers

essentially they're managing account but

also they're doing sales.

>> Yeah. Actually, I'm sorry. Three. Three.

And uh correct. Each has their own

funnel. They all they all estimate their

own work, send out the bid,

>> you know, manage the the interaction and

then hand it off to a project manager.

Okay. Individually separately. So, it's

multiple businesses with their own

business. And then do they go out and

prospect for new business or they just

take the inbound?

>> Inbound.

>> Okay. And so the business never had any

outbound, you know, uh way to go out and

find business and and bid on business.

>> No. No. And I thought that was my

lowhanging fruit. I thought that was my

value ad. So immediately after

acquisition, I started hiring BD guys

and ladies and one after the other

didn't work. Didn't work. Didn't work.

And by the way, hiring in commercial

roofing is extremely expensive. It's

ridiculous.

>> Can't find talent for nothing. Um, and

uh, we finally landed on a business

development lady about a year ago, 13

months since she's been with us. she's

gaining traction, but it's such a long

process. Yeah.

>> To gain the confidence and to to have

the consumers see you as an authority in

the space that it's it's just that it's

a very very long engagement, very long

process. Um, now I've what I've done

recently is I've hired another expert

and another account manager. So, we're

definitely building the business

development side of things. We are

definitely going into 2026 with a great

strategy of outbound business

development. We're excited about because

the phone is still ringing. We had a

great year. So, we're just going to add

to it. But now, what's different between

now and then is that then

I

I was recruiting for talent and just

kind of bringing anybody who who would

say yes. Yeah. Now I'm very intentional

and again we have the reputation and we

have a a a so so talent wants to see

talent. Talent wants to see that you

already have something cool happening

that they want to come and and join. Uh

and that's really what what really

happened. We got the flywheel moving and

now it's attracting not only new

customers but also talent. And that's

the difference. And it's it's one it's

hard right. What's first chicken on the

egg? It's hard to get that flywheel

going. Yeah. So when you say you're

intentional about what you're looking

for, so what are you looking for?

>> So we've just hired u a gentleman who

was very high up a seuite level with one

of the manufacturers in the industry.

>> Okay.

>> And what that means he knows everybody

and is extremely well respected. Uh so

that's that's what I mean. You just want

to get people You just want to get

people who

are

very very ingrained in the in this

market in the industry and are very well

known. And the other person that we've

hired is somebody who's coming in from

our direct competitor, a large a large a

lot larger company than us,

>> but they're coming over because um

because of instability in that company,

but after being bought out by PE.

>> So um so there's so so so again same

level very high level account manager

with them coming over here. Uh and it's

just one of those things where you start

attracting the right people when you get

the right thing going. Nice. And uh your

clients, are they developers or are they

the end client or who's your customer?

>> It's a building owners,

it's facility managers, property

managers, and uh we have a few

consultants that we work with.

>> Okay?

>> So, we don't work for builders, we don't

work for contractors, we don't work for

big box like Amazon or anything like

that. None of that. It's private work,

highly specialized hospitals,

pharmaceutical companies, things like

that.

>> Okay. And and this is like new installs

or mostly like, you know,

>> all reofroofs?

>> Reofroofs? Refs.

>> Very few new construction.

>> Okay. And you don't do much maintenance?

>> No, we do have a service and maintenance

department. Not nothing crazy. Uh we're

definitely going to look to grow it in

the next year.

Uh but yeah, it's it's that one primary

way to get your foot in the door. So,

it's very important to have a

maintenance and service department.

>> Got it. And so with these customers,

these uh you know, building owners and

asset managers and so forth, uh that you

already have, are they do you are you

capturing 100% of their business or are

they spreading their business, their re-

roofs across multiple companies? In in

our particular market, you kind of tend

to be a the the one provider for most of

the time.

>> Okay?

>> Again, most of the bids go out to

multiple biders.

>> Okay?

>> So, there is a chance you're not might

not get them all, but but on the on for

the most part, you're sort of connected

with that one owner. That doesn't mean

that owner doesn't have other facilities

in other states. Yeah. that somebody

else is doing. But states and local

specific, you tend to kind of be tied to

to whoever your contact is. Yes.

>> Got it. Okay. So, most of the time

you're getting 90% of their business

within your state.

>> Got it. And then you're are you covering

one state or two?

>> We're actually like in in we're in

Pennsylvania, we're in Delaware, we're

in Jersey. Sometimes we'll go up to

Connecticut. We just did a job in

Virginia. So, we are mobile but

obviously heavily concentrated in our

region.

>> Got it. So my question is, do you have

the ability to generate more revenue

within the same customers that you

already have?

>> 100%. Absolutely. Yeah. And that's why

I'm looking at this next acquisition

because it's strategically placed in the

in the next state where we can cross

reference our customer base, which a lot

of it is the same. So there wouldn't be

a lot of friction or heavy lifting to uh

tap into that work because that customer

already knows us.

>> Got it. So, so, so the business um 22

did 7 million, then it went down to like

five, and then it went to four

something, and then now what where did

it end at 25? 25.

>> We're going to end at 12.1, my friend.

>> That's awesome. Congratulations. Well

done.

>> Yes.

>> Nice. Okay, that's a big jump. That's

like three acts in one year.

>> Huge. Huge.

>> That's huge. Yeah. So, uh Yeah. So, I

Yeah, makes a big difference. Congrats,

man. and um and you know so all the

invest so of the things that you

implemented all the changes you

implemented uh what worked and what

didn't

>> uh

I guess it's maybe a little bit too soon

to say what didn't work we implemented a

HubSpot for sales and marketing CRM not

that we do a lot of marketing but just

for um customer database we implemented

FC CS for our service

uh CRM and we're going to see if we can

um use it for plat for production also.

Um other than that we haven't really

implemented much more. We've obviously

built out all our SOPs for each role and

uh and structure. Um this year with the

new people coming in, I'm really going

to lean into EOS and bring in a

professional and help us set up

everything. the VTO and proper or chart

and GWC everybody. So, we're going to

lean a little a lot more into that, but

I think, you know, just to answer your

question, what worked was doubling down

on what the culture should be. Um, I'm a

I'm a very culture first type of a

leader. And uh I've spent most of this

year connecting with my team. You know,

I do what's called skip meetings. So

every month I meet with every single

employee of the company just to shoot to

shed and get to know them. Um that was

important and honestly if it wasn't for

the buyin of the of the field team from

day one I wouldn't have survived. They

they had my back even though I was the

new guy. But thank God we connected

right off the bat and and that was the

most important piece. um sustaining that

culture, protecting them, uh having

their back and uh and everything else

slowly but surely fell into place. So,

it's just, you know, trusting the

process, trusting the universe and and

treating people right and and things

will work out.

>> So, how do you describe the culture?

>> Very very close. We we are um

we're now quite accountable with the old

team. it wasn't the accountability was

missing. But now with with the new team

in place, we're all very accountable of

each other and to each other. Um the

culture is

it's it's tight. We're we're we like to

spend time together. We like to win

together. Um uh we like to um celebrate

and and support each other if there's

tough times. Uh so very supportive.

Yeah.

>> Nice. And and how did the the dynamic of

the uh the owner coming back into the

business? Did did that you know the the

vibe, the energy, how did that dynamic

change or did it?

>> Um well definitely changed because when

he was when before he came in that year

and a half when he was missing there was

a lot of uncertainty, anxiety, fear, you

know we we everybody knew that the

company was struggling. There was

obviously that was very noticeable. we

we either had work or we didn't and we

didn't. So when he came back there was a

refreshed sense of uh confidence and and

and definitely

a lot of hope from everybody which which

then got turned into action. Uh so yeah

it changed it it elevated us up to um to

another level. So, even though when he

was not here, I was still leaning into

making sure that we're all together and

supporting each other and and um helping

each other win. Uh but when he came

back, he actually very much leaned into

what what what we already had going on.

>> Uh and and it just elevated everything.

>> That's awesome. And so, so tell me about

this next acquisition. So, how did it

come about and what's the the thought

there?

Yeah, I mean so it was just us sitting

around and and strategizing uh first of

all celebrating what was what was

happening and and the achievement that

we were you know uh putting together

here this year and we're just thinking

of what's next. Um cuz they knew they

knew that I bought the business with the

intention of growth and intention of

growth through M&A and organic and and

uh we were just kind of just seeing

what's possible talking through some

things and it's funny you you start

talking about something you put it out

in the world and all of a sudden you

know your your your senses gravitate to

to particular opportunities and and

there was a friend of a friend who

called us and said hey listen there's

this guy I know you guys you know, we're

just acquired. I know your new owner is

looking to expand and we heard that this

guy is interested in selling. He's it's

an offmarket deal and that's how we got

connected and um it it's very early. It

might not happen, but we're exploring it

and it looks good. It's a very similar

size business. So, so that would mean we

we know uh what to look for and how to

how to improve it. It's nothing nothing

that we're not familiar with. So, it

might happen. We'll see. Uh, but that's

all it is. It's through relationships

and uh like anything in this business.

Jesus Christ. Um, yeah. I don't know if

we're going to scale the M&A world by

by, you know, creating a funnel and and

sorting through Sims. I don't know if

we're going to do all that. We're

probably going to first just explore all

the relationship we have and see if

there's anything there. I know it's a

numbers games, but we'll see.

>> Yeah. But also I think I think for you

guys it's it's very uh specific. It's

very the type of businesses that you the

type of business you want to buy is very

unique and um and it's not like they're

going to be a lot of them out there. So

it's just a matter of like waiting for

that big fish to come around and you

know be able to recognize it and be able

to you know um do the transaction in a

in a in a quick manner. But yeah, I mean

it it makes uh it makes a lot of sense.

So what's the goal next year 2026?

>> Well, I mean definitely grow on what

we've built so far. So we're shooting

for 17 million next year.

>> Uh we can take down this acquisition

that would add another seven to the to

the top line and and then we still have

B&B. B&B's uh in a little bit of a

holding pattern there. We're rebuilding

some sales processes and our entire

sales engine and marketing engine. So

hopefully we can get some significant

bump out of that as well.

>> That's what I was going to ask you. How

did um this process of going through

this acquisition affect your your B&B

business?

>> Well, on paper negatively, but I don't

think it was because of the acquisition.

I think B&B has experienced uh hardships

because of the decisions I've made in

that business. Um, again, I've hired a

leader that unfortunately didn't work

out. Great guy, but just didn't work out

in the world,

>> and that hurt it a lot. We made some

decisions throughout that time that were

had a very long negative impact. We p we

we we made a wrong decision on a

marketing hire earlier last year. So, a

bunch of wrong hiring decisions,

unfortunately, which which again killed

the momentum. It's all about the

momentum. Uh so now I brought in some

talent to revamp the sales and marketing

department. We are we have shifted our

sales uh our our two customer approach.

We were always a follow-up shop. Now

we're a one Paul close shop. Uh so that

changes a lot that you have to change

the culture of the sales team. You have

to change the sales team cuz whoever was

selling for you before is not going to

sell in this new system. So we had to do

all that and all that takes time.

>> So we're very hopeful that we're past

all that. The changes have been made

now. We're executing. Uh so

all should be well.

>> Yeah. Nice. Yeah. And so what are some

of the lessons that you learned from the

commercial side that you can take to

your residential side?

>> That's a good question. I I don't I

don't know if there is any. There's so

drastically different businesses.

Um

yeah, my mind just goes to the high

level stuff like culture and things, but

uh yeah, this is B TOC. You're selling

at the kitchen table. You got a sales

process.

Um a lot of jobs turning quickly here.

It's big jobs going on for weeks or

months at a time. No, no marketing. Uh

the sales process is completely

different. So, not really sure. I have

to get back to you on that one.

>> How about the other way? Is there any

learning from the retail from the

residential to the commercial? Is there

anything that the commercial guys can

>> there? Yeah, there I I I I there is the

high customer touch in the commercial

industry

from at least from what I've seen

companies do not uh put a tremendous

amount of value on customer touch,

customer experience, post production

customer experience. As a matter of

fact, we talked about that earlier

today. And I think there is a lot that

this industry could learn from B2C

industry about how to handle customers

before, during, and after and how to

create that raving fan going forward.

>> Got it. So, some of the what are some of

the changes that you would you thinking

about making there? Yeah, we're going to

actually institute the playbook for from

residential in in commercial with the

post customer touch with through

automations, text messages, uh email

campaigns.

>> So, essentially just giving them more

visibility on what's going on. So,

feedback, giving them more information,

making sure that they know the job has

been done, the job is done certain way.

Is that what you're saying?

>> Yeah, that plus staying in touch. Hey,

it's been six months since we did your

roof. Is there anything else you need?

You know, um when they're warranty

expires, show up to the the building,

walk the roof to make sure everything's

fine.

>> Uh just those type of touches, just

being in constant communication with the

customer. Um I I I believe that's

tremendously important.

>> Yeah, it's huge. Adding value. Yeah. How

about like, you know, like the actual

face toace time, the actual like, you

know, mingling, taking out to to, you

know, dinner and stuff. Do you do any of

that or or it's not in your in the

index?

>> Yeah. Yeah. In in Yeah. In commercial

for sure. That's that's what it's all

about. You know, we're part of these

associations and the dinners. You got to

sponsor this and sponsor that and take

that take people out for golf outings

and things. It's that's the tall world,

man. That's where that marketing budget

goes. Not to not to LSA and Google

pay-per-click. It goes to golf outings.

>> Yes. [laughter]

Yeah. And that's uh and and it's

necessary because the you know one

client can be a lot of volume and and

and are you you know are you with that

association which is also it's another

another way like being being involved in

local associations being involved in um

I don't know um asset manager national

asset manager association whatever uh

those can be huge for companies like

yours. Are you like going deep into

that? Like being more like a

>> a higher level sponsor or being involved

in their committees and

>> and so forth like how how are you

playing that game that the

>> Exactly that. Yeah, exactly that. We

sponsor table, we sponsor booths. Uh

we're you know sometimes we're the main

sponsors, sometimes not. uh but we have

to like our business development uh

person attends each and one of each and

every one of them. We go to conferences.

It's um it's a it's it's a game. It's a

fun game to play but it's a necessary

game to play.

>> Uh for sure for sure it gives it gets a

lot of traction.

>> So when you think of those guys those

are asset managers that goes to those

things or builder build

>> each each association is for their own

type right. So we have Bulma uh which

actually don't even know what it stands

for. B then we have IFMA which is for uh

facility managers.

>> Okay.

>> Um and there's another one for property

man. Bulma is for property managers. Uh

there's another one um I forget its

name. Then we go to NERA which is the

National Roofing Association conference.

So we try to pick the mo there's one

more about for consultants. So we try to

pick a direct lane, a focus association

so we know what our target audience is.

So we we try to keep the net narrow uh

not not blasted out wide because again

we're very specific on our customer uh

uh concentration and our customer

profile

>> from what perspective

>> we don't want builders. We don't want to

talk to contractors. We don't want to

talk to uh facility managers of Walmarts

or or or uh Amazon buildings. We don't

want any of that.

>> Okay. Got it. And so those specific

managers, facility managers for

healthcare buildings, hospitals,

whatever. Yes.

>> When you think when they go to these

organizations or where they go to these

events,

they themselves like personally, what

are they trying to achieve?

>> Create a rolodex of vendors that they

can trust. Got it. So that's what

they're they're going to these events

specifically

>> and of course well well not specifically

they're there to meet other owners or

other managers people on their level and

make and make u connection and network

that way to improve their own business.

But we're there sponsoring as vendors.

So then we kind of get ingrained in that

community and when they need a vendor

they know who to look for and they'll

first look up people who support them

other than people from outside that that

don't you know that don't support

>> and are there any like thought leaders

or people that speak in those event like

people that teach in those events teach

these guys you know where are they

teaching where are they like what is the

kind of uh what is the thing that they

all want to learn about these facility

managers what are some of the things

that they want to like develop because

I'm assuming they go these events to

grow to learn to develop addition to

network where are they trying to learn

what

>> yeah so the ones that we attend they're

very local they're they're here in

Jersey they're not national very local

so there is very few uh opportunities

where they have uh learning environments

>> which actually that's that's a brilliant

[snorts] idea I should bring that up to

our BD person to maybe offer a lunch and

or something.

>> Yeah. So, you want to be like the

thought leader. That's what I was going

to say. So like, oh, these guys don't

know what the compliance regulation

that's coming

>> or maybe something specific to

healthcare facilities or maybe AI, how

to use AI or the new tools to kind of

like be a better facility managers or

how to use satellite technology to

visual

world your team or your company become

that thought leader not just a vendor

but we bring value in terms of

information, insight, and we want you to

come, we'll come to your facility and

teach your people,

>> you know, about this stuff that may not

be related to a roof, but it adds value

to your business, whether it is, you

know, new regulation in OSHA or new

regulation in in design

or whatever. I think it's uh anytime

there's compliance, people lean in to to

want to know and and anytime there's

technology that also and and I'm

assuming there are other things that

they can they they'll be curious about.

>> Yeah. No, I I don't disagree 100%.

>> Yeah,

>> that's awesome. All right, Camille,

thank you for sharing your your your

experience with us and and your story.

It was uh uh incredible to uh follow and

I'm glad uh things are, you know,

have improved and and you guys are doing

amazing.

>> Yeah, man. Thank you so much for the

opportunity, Jay. Uh always fun to share

the the journey and the story and the

lessons cuz uh cuz if if you can't

share, then what are we doing this for?

You know what I mean? It's always it's

always good to pour into the community.

>> Love it. Thank you. Thank you, Camille.

Appreciate Thanks, brother.

>> Thank you. Have a good one.

>> All right. Bye-bye.

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